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Xbox-Hq.Com :: View topic - 80 Conductor IDE/Ultra ATA Cables
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AdmiralShlong
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Post Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:15 am   
Post subject: 80 Conductor IDE/Ultra ATA Cables
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Upon trying a few different 40 pin 80 con 18in IDE66/100/133 cables in Xboxes I keep having reach problems. None of them lay out properly to where the blue plug will go in the board, the gray in the CD drive, black in the HDD. The HDD I'm interested in using now says it requires cable select jumper setting and the black plug in the HDD to run it as the master drive. If I have the cable backwards with the blue plug in the desired HDD and black in the board, will it run as master for general use and cloning via chimp as long as the drive being cloned and then later the CD drive is on gray?
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StarTech 80 Conductor PATA Cable
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ArchAngle
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:02 am   
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I had to do a bit of research on this and there is some confusing information about what goes where when using Cable Select with 40 wire and 80 wire ATA cables.

Most sources say that the plug position of the Slave and Master are reversed when using an 80 wire ATA cable. However I would have thought that only if you are using two HDDs both set to Cable Select would the plug designation likely matter.

Whether the disc drive is actually in the Master designated position on the cable or not is almost certainly irrelevant with the Xbox. If there is nothing in the disc drive the Xbox boots from the next device, the HDD. This is the expected default BIOS boot order behaviour for any computer.

With a Xbox the only time you use two HDDs is when cloning with Chimp and the 2nd HDD is attached only after the system has booted. You always set the 2nd HDD, attached to the middle connector, as Slave. Maybe with an 80 wire cable it would also work using Cable Select whereas with a 40 wire cable it wouldn't. Does that matter? I don't think so.

What isn't so easy to explain is that all the sources I've found say the blue ATA plug of an 80 wire cable should be plugged into the MB.

Well in all three of the 80 wire cables I've used if you did that the physical layout of the disc drive and HDD in the Xbox make that impossible. The blue plug has to go to the HDD, the grey to the disc drive and the black to the MB.

What that suggests to me is that too doesn't actually matter. It is simply a set of wires and which end is plugged into the MB is of no matter.


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AdmiralShlong
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Post Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:30 am   
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ArchAngle wrote:
Well in all three of the 80 wire cables I've used if you did that the physical layout of the disc drive and HDD in the Xbox make that impossible. The blue plug has to go to the HDD, the grey to the disc drive and the black to the MB.


Thank you once again. Your name suits you well, as this is the second or third time now you have been my angel and saved me from pouring countless dollars into something that would have ended up futile.

As you said, fitting 80 wire cables correctly might never happen. I even tried a 36 inch one, it reached both drives right, but there was so much extra cable behind the CD drive that every time I tried to gingerly weasel the excess in, it unplugged the fan so the system wouldn't even boot. It makes sense that the plug orientation wouldn't matter during regular boots and runs, my main concern was that during cloning the exact correct layout might be needed by a program like Chimp. Now that I think of it though, I could just have all drives out and dangling to the sides during cloning, letting even an 18 inch cable easily reach correctly if it did matter.

_________________
X-DU Chip: Solderless Adapter+Toggle Switch
320GB ST3320620A 7200RPM 16MB Cache
Gellid GC-Extreme Thermal Compound
StarTech 80 Conductor PATA Cable
80mm Xilence Hydro Bearing Fan
Taiyo Yuden Clock Capacitor
XBMC Build 3.5.3 Dash
Xbox 1.1 MainBoard
iND-BiOS 5004
128MB RAM


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deltaarmstrong2000
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:45 am   
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As for the blue plug into the motherboard, some used to be crossover cables so you had to designate primary and secondary drives. in recent years(lol 10yrs) with new nand chips that's not needed.
I found that making my own cables worked best in the upgrade, instead of twisting or flipping the one connector


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AdmiralShlong
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:34 pm   
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Well then cheers for the progression of nand chips! I might try making my own cable soon. The 18in. 80 wire I have didn't need any twisting, just many many folds. Seeing the blue connector on the HDD is odd though, and I could use some cable making practice.
_________________
X-DU Chip: Solderless Adapter+Toggle Switch
320GB ST3320620A 7200RPM 16MB Cache
Gellid GC-Extreme Thermal Compound
StarTech 80 Conductor PATA Cable
80mm Xilence Hydro Bearing Fan
Taiyo Yuden Clock Capacitor
XBMC Build 3.5.3 Dash
Xbox 1.1 MainBoard
iND-BiOS 5004
128MB RAM


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deltaarmstrong2000
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:30 am   
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I don't recommend what I'm going to say, but in a pinch and having cables all over the place I have had success in flipping the one connector around so no folding of the cable. The key is making sure each pin goes through the existing hole before snapping the plug together again.
Remember like everything, a shorter cable will always give better results, whether it be a bit of speed, or correct data transfer.


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AdmiralShlong
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Xbox Version: 1.1 & 360E 500
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Posts: 64
Location: Alpine, CA USA

Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:03 pm   
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I never realized that you could filp a PATA connector. That's such a simplistic yet brilliant idea! Thanks for the mention, that is great to know even with the risk involved. I will probably buy a spare 18in. and try it.

Indeed, even with shielded cables, a meter or many centimeters can make a considerable difference. I used to use a 60ft and a 40ft CAT6 patch combo for FTP, but since I switched to two 40 feet CAT6 patch cords, my transfer rates went from about 8500kb/s to around 10,000kb/s. None of those aformentioned cables are shielded though.

_________________
X-DU Chip: Solderless Adapter+Toggle Switch
320GB ST3320620A 7200RPM 16MB Cache
Gellid GC-Extreme Thermal Compound
StarTech 80 Conductor PATA Cable
80mm Xilence Hydro Bearing Fan
Taiyo Yuden Clock Capacitor
XBMC Build 3.5.3 Dash
Xbox 1.1 MainBoard
iND-BiOS 5004
128MB RAM


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deltaarmstrong2000
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:41 pm   
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You can buy a virgin cable from digikey or mouser, and the clip style connectors as well if you wanted to save the risk. I used a small rubber mallet and the cement floor to punch the connectors through the cable Wink


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AdmiralShlong
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Posts: 64
Location: Alpine, CA USA

Post Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:38 pm   
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Good to know, I never even thought of searching for virgin PATA/IDE cables. I figured they would all be bought out by now lol
_________________
X-DU Chip: Solderless Adapter+Toggle Switch
320GB ST3320620A 7200RPM 16MB Cache
Gellid GC-Extreme Thermal Compound
StarTech 80 Conductor PATA Cable
80mm Xilence Hydro Bearing Fan
Taiyo Yuden Clock Capacitor
XBMC Build 3.5.3 Dash
Xbox 1.1 MainBoard
iND-BiOS 5004
128MB RAM


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Shinai
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Post Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:08 pm   
Post subject:
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ArchAngle wrote:
I had to do a bit of research on this and there is some confusing information about what goes where when using Cable Select with 40 wire and 80 wire ATA cables.

Most sources say that the plug position of the Slave and Master are reversed when using an 80 wire ATA cable. However I would have thought that only if you are using two HDDs both set to Cable Select would the plug designation likely matter.

Whether the disc drive is actually in the Master designated position on the cable or not is almost certainly irrelevant with the Xbox. If there is nothing in the disc drive the Xbox boots from the next device, the HDD. This is the expected default BIOS boot order behaviour for any computer.

With a Xbox the only time you use two HDDs is when cloning with Chimp and the 2nd HDD is attached only after the system has booted. You always set the 2nd HDD, attached to the middle connector, as Slave. Maybe with an 80 wire cable it would also work using Cable Select whereas with a 40 wire cable it wouldn't. Does that matter? I don't think so.

What isn't so easy to explain is that all the sources I've found say the blue ATA plug of an 80 wire cable should be plugged into the MB.

Well in all three of the 80 wire cables I've used if you did that the physical layout of the disc drive and HDD in the Xbox make that impossible. The blue plug has to go to the HDD, the grey to the disc drive and the black to the MB.

What that suggests to me is that too doesn't actually matter. It is simply a set of wires and which end is plugged into the MB is of no matter.


From someone that has been in the IT Industry for 11 years, this might better explain how that works.

Master/Slave/CS is all determined by jumper pins in the device. In the Xbox, the HDD can be read in two ways(most times) or one way(All the time).

A.)Master/Cable Select - Most people say that you can do Master or Cable Select. If you've examined the original HDD, it has the pin in the CS setting. Surely you should do what the original one did and change the jumper pin to CS mode. However, from what I read this is completely dependent upon the HDD that you have put in.

B.)Master only - This method appears to always work. Not really much else needed, the system knows that it is the master device

What leads me through this long-winded explaination is the following:
I believe that the xbox Disk drive has either a "Slave" setting or a "CS" setting. I'm more inclined to believe slave since when you upgrade your HDD, if you leave a HDD in CS, CHIMP doesn't particularly like anything besides slave.

Either way, what I am saying is that the cable positioning means nothing, this is all determined by what the devices are saying they are.


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